elements and street crime. everybody should be in jail because of a criminal. there is bad people in all systems. the capitalist system, free-market system is going to channel people's self-interest into the most constructive activities that benefit everyone. >> host: jamie dimon being called before congress because his company lost money. >> guest: there is risk in markets. ..

freedom manifesto, where free markets are moral and a government isn't it will be talking with her co-author, steve forbes as well about this book. argues targeted killings did not make us safer. this is about an hour and a half. [cheers and applause] >> thank you. it's wonderful to be here in

buffalo and to be talking about an issue that is obvious they vary near and dear to my heart, drone warfare. i want to give you a little background first about why i wrote a book on drone warfare. it really dates back now to over 10 years when the u.s., after 9/11 invaded afghanistan. i do know some of you are to run to remember, but others have asked might remember looking at our tv screens and seeing the pictures of these very serious the new weapons that we had in this idea that we now have these precision weapons would only target people they wanted to get. i would not result in capital or damage. it was almost a way to say to people, calm down, don't be

worried. we won't be killing innocent people. so i was worried because i don't have a sense the latest and greatest new weapon is going to attack innocent people. and went to afghanistan three weeks after the invasion with several other colleagues and others before we even got into afghanistan that we found already people who would be considered collateral damage. the first young woman i met someone who sticks with me. she was 13 or so to my dad at that time was 13 or so it and i felt an affinity with her and asked her if i could learn about her story and she took it back to her home in with the help of an interpreter, i learned she had recently come from a pool when the u.s. started on main, her family had lived on the

outskirts of a taliban compound in her home was bombed by mistake. she was not at her father was not home in the house where her mother and three sisters and brothers. when they came home that evening, they found the whole house had been destroyed and the only thing they found were pieces of flesh on the streets. that was all that was left of the family. and of course he started crying as she retold the story and also retold the story of her father who was a big, strapping man, they cannot commit to a man, praying and they are working a day in again. at that moment her teens she found yourselves the height of the household with a new father and two little brothers. and had to start walking.

i'll go into pakistan where she was living hand to mouth from a dragon on the streets of the very, very poor city. no matter how precise our bombs are, they are still killing innocent people and leaving a lot of people suffering. so that is really the reason that i researched the drones and the reason i do this work is because i think as americans we have to be thinking about the lives of people everywhere, not just her own children. the children in pakistan or afghanistan or anywhere are as precious as our own. the other reason i wanted to do this book is because i realized that now that we are 10 years into more, that the american people are tired of war and this

has come out poll after poll. in fact, the most recent polls show it's not just democrats or independents or green party members. it's republicans as well. in fact for the first time that we have majority of republicans in the war in afghanistan is not worth fighting, which is something very significant because it's often hard for people when a war is going on and you still have american troops there to say this just is not worth fighting. and also we have to recognize that with this country in a financial crisis, more and more people are recognizing these are now the trillion dollar wars and because our economy is in the shape it's in now. we can't afford these expensive wars. i think the government understand that credit for going

to keep the war is going, it's got to be through other means, not with this on the grounds where americans are killed. not the extensive old way old way of doing more, but a new way of doing more that isn't drone strikes. and drone strikes are shown to the american people with their own soldiers at risk because there is no pilot in the cup pit. and as an alternative to boots on the ground. i used a whole book to counter those arguments. let me step back for a minute and talk about what our terms. for anybody who doesn't know, drones, and all shapes and sizes. there are little bitty drones the size of an ex, drones the size of yours. in fact, drones are mimicking the hummingbird, different types of birds, dragonfly drones.

there are drone soldiers is to put in their that pack and could launch them individually and these go out and survey the terrain before the soldiers go. there are the larger trends come and the mall airplane. the reaper and predator drones had the ones being used and is lethal attacks. it is general topics based in southern california. a member of very, big surveillance drones, once called the global hawk that are the size of a commercial airplane. these can play 60,000 feet altitude and give you the site of an entire city at once. so there's all kinds of drones. most of them are surveillance drones come up with the surveillance drones can easily be equipped to be lethal drones as well.

so who is piloting these drones? well, some of you in this audience actually have been protesting at the handcart air force base, one of the places where drones are piloted. and other places outside vegas, nevada, to create air force base in many places around the united states were drone pilots everything being trained for drones are being tested or piloted. so this is a new kind of warfare, where you don't even have to be in the area of the battle. you can be thousands and thousands of miles away thinking that the battlefield to a video screen. in fact, the manufacturers admit that the screens are really -- design is taken taken from the video games that teenagers have grown up playing and it's easier for them when they are recruited and become drone pilot.

they are used to using these kinds of playstation. enjoy. in fact, the u.n. has u.s. has created a playstation mentality through war. it is a very surreal thing to think about pilot been in an air force base in the united states over the drones are being run by the cia they are, they can be outside of virginia and they are in an air-conditioned room. they are sitting in an ergonomic chair and they are looking for hours and hours on end at a scene in a place that they may never have been to. don't sleep the language, don't know the closer. and they are hovering over people's homes for days at a time, sometimes weeks at a time

and they are the ones that price the kill button. studies have been done that show that these pilot are oftentimes having the same kind of trauma that soldiers on the battlefield have because they've been asked to do something but i think our brains are nowhere to do and that is to kill people remotely during the day and then go home in the evening to their families, where they are supposed to be loving fathers, and loving husbands come integrated members of their community, a part of their church group. this is very hard for some of these pilots to do. there's another problem the pilots talk about and that is poured in. they are sitting in front of the screen for hours and hours and hours on end. in fact, some of them say they would rather be in the battlefield, that they signed up with the military to be in the battlefield if they want to be with their buddies on the

ground. so sitting in front of the screen, they're actually looking for some action, meaning looking for some kind of suspicious behavior. well, the drone strikes are happening in two different ways. one is that there is a show last, where you're actually going after an individual whose name you know. you, for example we have you on a kill list them will go after you and will try and try and try again until they get you. you are a high-value target. there is another type of list and that is called the personality straight or the other is a signature stripe. and that is based on suspicious fee for. as i give this talk about those remote pilot who were sitting thousands of miles away and looking for suspicious behavior,

what they might surmise his suspicious behavior when it is really just perhaps a community meeting. the kill list. let's take a minute to talk about how the catalyst is determined. when i was writing the book, was trying hard to get all kinds of contradictory series about a. and it wasn't until "the new york times" came out with this long story on may 29th about how intimately involved president obama is in this kill list. and to me this is a jaw-dropping piece of journalism because it was so detailed and it came from people who are presently in the administration or had been recently in the administration. and what was shocking to me was to learn that president obama

brings him his advisers once a week on what they call terror tuesday is and sort through these profiles of people that they have information and a photo and save these look like baseball cards and they decide who's going to live and who is going to die. they played the role of prosecutor, judge, jury and executioner all at once. some might say they play the role of god. some of them are shocking things in that article were that they admitted that the administration defines all men of military age in the zones where we are using those drone as militants. that to me was just astounding, to think that by definition, a

young man living in the wrong place at the wrong time is a militant and can only be present in a sense post-human life, after they are killed. it's quite astounding. well, when that article came out, there were a couple of different reactions. one from congress was sent where they doing these kill list and killing so many innocent people in defining militants like that. instead, they said why are they linking information to the press from which actually is a good question because these are supposed to be secret programs congress was even supposed to talk about. but he would be nice if more people in congress were shot to death the catalyst itself. but it seems that the speculation is that the obama team thought it would be a good election strategy to have this

piece come out and show how to president is sent terror, that in case there were like independent voters who are trying to win over them might think this president is soft on security, that this could be an example to show them he was a tough guy. in fact, they quoted people saying it is easy for him to put people on the list. not a lot of hand wringing that came this. but i think this article kind of backfired because as i travel around and talked to people, i think people who are suddenly aware of this program and who are really shocked by it. so let me talk about some of the examples of who is being killed. if pakistan is the place where the drones have been used the mouse. we have also used the drones a lot in iraq and afghanistan as

part of the larger wars. the u.s. has also used trial and in yemen, somalia. it appears they have used terms in the philippines and in libya as well. now, libya is an interesting case because when there were discussions among the public about the pros and cons of the u.s. intervening in libya, there is one thing that was really left out of the equation and that was whether or not it was a good thing to get involved militarily to overthrow gadhafi. the way in which it was done is to cut congress altogether and the administration's just vacation or not even bringing this up for a discussion in congress is when it's just an air war that we are using drugs and new of u.s. lives are at

risk of a congress should have no say and not. so think of the kind of usurpation of power by the executive ranch, taken this away from the legislative ranch and what kind of precedent is set for future people in the white house. we have also been a case of a rat, when the u.s. troops left, left drones behind and put them in the hands not of the military, but the state department. so we have the diplomatic branch of our government in iraq having its own fleet of jones and we left drones across the border in turkey, where they have been used to give information to the turkish government and its conflict with the kurds. in fact, the u.s. supplied information in an attack that was wrong and left a lot of innocent kurds killed. it puts the u.s. in the middle of another conflict we shouldn't be in.

in the case of pakistan, there were drone strikes under the bush administration, but there were a total of 46 dragster in the entire time of the bush administration, which works out to one strike about every 40 days once they started using these. in the case of the obama administration, they became one strike every four days. there have been over at rielle hunter 20 drone strikes, the vast majority under the obama administration and some would say people in the obama administration decided they wouldn't use the bush tactic, which was to capture people and put them in guantánamo because that turned out to be very messy. it was then a big debate whether they should have civilian trials or military trials are we to do with the people you found innocent and they've got nowhere to go that it was neither cleaner to just kill people. and the outcry that many people in this country had towards

indefinite detention, guantánamo, the torture, extraordinary rendition, we don't hear that kind of outcry against an obama administration policy of simply killing people. in the case of pakistan, it seems that there are no good statistics because our government doesn't tell us about these programs, but there are several different organizations that try to compile the statistics. it's difficult because journalists are not allowed into the northern part of pakistan were drones are being used, but some of the best figures say there's perhaps 3000 people killed in pakistan. 175 of them children. now another astounding thing is you probably have never seen a picture of a child who has been killed by a drone strike. you probably never seen a picture of anybody who s. been killed by a drone strike.

our media doesn't seek out the stories, does it show us the photo. i'll show you a couple today because again this is not what you see on your tv screens. this for example is an 8-year-old child who was killed in a drone strike, february 14. happens to be valentine's day. this is two boys who were killed in a drone strike in pakistan. we have many of these pictures which you can see on the website drugs watchdog work. this is quite a gruesome looking picture and i know it's hard to look at, but this is what happens in drone strikes. in fact, most of the time that it then searches pulverized and you won't even see this kind of grisly picture because there will be almost no remains. i wanted to read a little bit from the book about a case of

somebody killed in a drone strike, just to try to humanize this a little bit for you. this is the case that the family of a man called korean: and the drone strike at his family compound in northern pakistan on december 31, new year's day for us -- well come in new year's eve 2009. status come with a drone didn't just have her overhead that night. watching the movement of the villagers bola as it had done on so many other occasions. no, this time to let loose a missile into the heart of kareem khan's family compound. in the chaos of the explosion dissipated, his brother and son had been blown to bits. news reports cited in podgy omar, a taliban commander, but the villagers insisted that

podgy omar had been nowhere in sight. the tragedy that forever scarred the lies of kareem collins family appear to be the product of a mistake. a mistake by a fiery aggressor who would face no punishment for pressing the fire button without looking long enough, without checking, without double checking. his son had just graduated from high school. his brother was not a militant or even a militant sympathizer, but a schoolteacher with a master's degree in english literature. for eight years he been teaching at the small village school with whatever meager resources he could muster. he left behind a young wife, now a widow, so distraught she could not speak for weeks after the attack and a 2-year-old boy who would never remember his father. he said the drones were constantly buzzing around his village and they were terrifying

to people, especially the children who would go to bed at night, not knowing if they would wake up in the morning or not. but little did the people at this conference in islamabad now that the first drone strike every document it was two days later and it was a drone strike that killed this young man, to wreak as he is himself. now the lawyers at that conference were outraged and they went to the u.s. embassy. they went to the u.s. government, the pakistani government and said why did she tell this young man? and the u.s. government said he was a militant and the lawyer said, well, we would like to see the proof that he was a militant, but in any case, if you have any proof, why didn't you just come into the hotel where he was staying with a meeting where he was for four days and arrest him and give them a chance for a trial like

you are supposed to do. there was no answers to that question. so what have the people of pakistan done? well, we know from wikileaks documents that are visually the government of pakistan, the prime minister said okay, you did a drone strikes and we will express our outrage to the public about them. and that went on for a while until the government realized that so many innocent people were being killed and that this drone strike program was counterproductive, to do is driving people into the arms of the talent in an al qaeda, that he was turning them against themselves and turning them against the american people. the government of pakistan which the u.s. they voted once, three

times unanimously not to ask, but to demand that the united states stopped the drone attacks in the u.s. government refused to do that. the pakistani people have been going out in huge numbers by hundreds of thousands, protesting the drone strikes. most of the pakistani people hate the taliban and coming hate al qaeda and hit the drone strikes. in fact, there was a poll done just very recently that showed that the pakistani people who had heard of the drone strikes because there's not a lot of information in the media care as well, and 97% of them said they were against these strikes. 97% of the population.

you would think that would tell something to the obama administration, to the pentagon, to the cia then maybe this is not a good program, but unfortunately it hasn't. unfortunately, with the u.s. government has done his transfer this to another country and that is to yemen. the drone strikes in yemen under the obama did ministration began in 2009. the first drone strike was a mistake, hit the wrong target, less 14 women and 21 children dead. only one person of the dozens killed was identified as having strong ties to al qaeda. if you want to get a sense of how successful the drone strike has been in yemen, when it first started in 2009, there were maybe 200 members of something called al qaeda and the raping and peninsula and they controlled the territory.

today there's maybe over a thousand people identified as members of this group and they control a substantial territory. there was a very good op-ed piece that came out in "the new york times" on june 3rd team, written by a 23-year-old yemeni act to this end he was really a plea to the united states government. the title of it was how drugs help al qaeda. as a drone strikes cause more people to join radical militants not driven by ideology, but by revenge and despair. he said the short-term gains from killing military leaders is miniscule compared to the long-term damage the drone program is causing. so, in yemen it's not only a case of killing people inside yemen. and i should mention that the drones program started their, it

was under the dictatorship of ali abdullah saleh and the people as part of the arab screen had rosette against him. well, he was the one providing information to the united states about who was al qaeda. so he was speaking people out here that's al qaeda, that al qaeda and of course these are just political opponents. so, in the case of gannon, the u.s. drone strikes have not only been killing people from that country, but they have been killing american citizens as well. i wonder in this group you've heard of the case of an were al-awlaki. so some of you have and i think many people in this country have not. this is a cleric -- a muslim cleric born in the united states, move to yemen, known for his fiery sermon he was put on a kill list and killed a drone strike along with another american named samir. there are organizations like the

center for constitutional rights and the aclu that then asked the u.s. government to provide the information to say, how can you justify the killing of an american citizen and the u.s. government has refused to provide the information. in fact, until recently the u.s. government has refused to talk about this whole program at all. two weeks after the killing of were al-awlaki and samir khan, there was another drone strike that killed an american citizen and that was a 16-year-old boy who was the son. his name is abdullah brought mine al-awlaki. and i just want to look at this picture are you to see because he was born in denver. these are his face but pictures, said that he liked rap, hip-hop, swimming.

he was just ignored merry american boy with no interest in politics. he was basically killed in a drone strike, can perhaps be in the wrong place at the wrong time, perhaps being born to the wrong family. you might remember in the case of trade on margin of president obama was very sympathetic and said if i had a son, he would've put the tray von martin. well, i can't help looking at this picture and thinking perhaps that of president obama had a son, he might look like a ghoul rock than al-awlaki. it would be nice if he had some sympathy for this young man as well. it is really quite astounding that a young american teenager can be killed by a u.s. drone

strike without a huge outcry throughout this country. the administration has felt some pressure to just ride this killing spree and attorney general eric holder spoke in march of this year, trying to give some legal justification. now, i have a whole chapter in the book about the legal issues because it is so important to talk about how legal this program is. according to international law commission of convention, u.s. constitution, all kinds of laws are being broken. the u.s. government, to sum it up is basically saying we have the right to self-defense, that enemies are mobile, they go from one country to another and we can go there as well. according to the legal definition of self-defense, it's very narrowly defined.

it has to be the attack against you is imminent. there's somebody about to bomb you and you have given your enemy a chance to surrender. don't tell me, how can somebody surrender to a missile? you can't. the u.s. government is also saying that it has the right to go anywhere because in the aftermath of 9/11, congress gave the administration a green light to attack anybody associated with 9/11. well, there is a problem there as well. a lot of the people being killed today were maybe 10 or 11 years old at the time of 9/11. and there's another problem, which is some of the organizations being attacked at the one in yemen didn't even exist at the time of 9/11. and then there is this very strange and i was macabre

justification for the killing of american citizens overseas. and that is that it appears that the american public have been misinformed about what our constitution actually guarantees us. you might have thought that a hundred years after the magna carta when people had established over centuries the right to a trial is somehow in our constitution you are guaranteed the right to a fair trial. did she think that? did she think that? you were mistaken. you are not guaranteed the right to a fair trial. you are only guaranteed something mysteriously called to process and it seems that the definition of two process by this administration, a constitutional lawyer had a net is that they call in the guise for terror tuesday and decide whether to put you on a kill list or not.

and it is terrifying and i look for responses to eric holder's idea that we were not guaranteed any kind of judicial process. the best one i found was not from a harvard lawyer or any constitutional lawyer. it was from a late-night comedian named stephen colbert. you might've heard of him. stephen colbert said yes, the founders were icky. trial by jury, fire by a child, rock, paper, scissors, who cares. two process just means there's a process that you do. the current process, the president meets with his advisers, decides who to kill and kill spam. if we're ever going to win our never-ending war of terror as cold air, there's bound to be casualties and one just happens to be the u.s. constitution. let's give a hand for stephen colbert.

[applause] well, you might think that the u.s. can get away with it because might makes right and we are the king of the drones. well, we are fast becoming one of many, many countries that have drowned and that puts it in a whole different light. see the u.s. is number one producer and by far the number one user of drugs. but coming up from behind is israel. that's right. the u.s. and israel have had a long collaboration in the development of drones that goes back for several decades now. in fact, the predator and reaper drones that we are using today was developed by an israeli engineer working for the israeli defense forces. israel has used the drones extensively in the gaza strip.

the operation led invasion in 2008, late 2009 in which over 1400 people were killed. over 800 of those cheap or were killed drone attacks. israel also sells drones extensively overseas. in fact, they are number one exporter of drones and they have sold drugs to other 50 different countries. and then there is another country that always seems to get on the bandwagon when it comes to good markets and manufacturing that is china. go figure. so china sees this as the multimillion dollars market. were going to get in here and produced runs faster and cheaper than anybody else can make these drugs. lo and behold, the chinese are now producing several dozen different types of drones and selling them all over as well. so this is an arms race, definitely an ongoing arms race

and it's fast and furious because people like leon panetta have caused drones the only game in town. everybody wants a charm. not only states, but not to act or spirit we are not talking about nuclear technology. it's a lot simpler and they can easily get their hands on nature on. let's think of the case that happened in iran. you might remember just a couple months back that the iranians said that they had hacked into a very sophisticated u.s. surveillance drone and brought it down without a scratch. and they showed it to the world's tv cameras and said thank you ramage, president obama for this very sophisticated case you have given us in a couple months later said they had reverse engineered it and are now making the run very sophisticated surveillance drone. so you can see that what goes

around unfortunately usually comes around. you've got to wonder what other countries are thinking. what our opinions thinking? what are the chinese thinking? who they say there are terrorists like the tibetans or the uighurs that it is an all around the world, including here in the united states. why should mages, and kill them here? or what about the russians or with these chechen terrorists and why should mages follow them wherever in the world they are and kill them with these drones? or i wonder about the cuban who have been trying to extradite known terrorists and dynamic, like a name on trent man who is known for downed a commercial airliner, living happily in miami. i have actually been to the apartment where he lives and i wonder, what with the cubans be thinking about maybe sending a drone into that apartment in

killing him and perhaps a couple neighbors in the process? hoops, that is what happens is drones. they don't do it right now, certainly the cubans would be very afraid of a counterattack from the united states. but there are very powerful countries and nonstate entities that perhaps would like to do the same kind of thing that the united states is doing. and it's very dangerous. the possibility of blowback is very real. but that brings me to the other ratio and that is drones here at home. so there is an entity in the united states that runs our airspace and that is called the federal aviation administration. they have the mandate to look out for the safety of our airspace. they take that mandate seriously, which is why they've been very relaxed yet to give

out willy-nilly permits to be using drugs in the united states because they've done something most americans don't know, which is that drones crashed a lot. they crash all the time. the air force has admitted a third of their drones crashed. there is a huge event as global hawks just crash last month and it crashed in the swamp and didn't kill anybody, but could've very well killed people in the crash. and so the essay i have given not just a couple hundred permits. now unfortunately they haven't wanted to let the american public know who has these permits. it was thanks to lawsuits and the freedom of information act request that we are starting to get information that there are about 300 that there are about 300 that there are about 300 a drill agencies like homeland hundred a drill agencies like homeland security, fbi, border patrol is using drugs on the

southern and northern border. they've been giving out to companies that make the drones. permits have been issued to some universities that are working with the pentagon and they've been given to about 30 police departments to experiment with drugs. well, the drug manufacturers have been very upset with the faa and send the, this is a growth industry. we need a market. we need to solve these drones at home. but speed up this process. so what do they do? they formed their own lobby group in the new piece of legislation and they got their own members of congress to form a drone caucus. now think about all the things you can have a caucus about to help schoolchildren, to feed the homeless. i mean, a million things. there's a group of 58 congresspeople do think it's their duty elected by we the people to go into congress and

address what they say is the urgent need to see more of these unmanned vehicles being used both overseas and here in the united states. so they passed a piece of legislation on february 14 of this year, signed by the president on valentine's day. a big valentine's day gift to the drug industry that mandates the faa to open up completely by drone by september 2015 at the latest in earlier for a lot of first donations be. and so that is going to -- we are going to see 20, 30,000 drones use here at home in the decades to come if we don't do something about it. well, what is the market that the drug manufacturers see? there are many commercial uses they would like to see a drones,

but they are drooling at the thought of 18,000 police stations in this country, all having their own drugs. and so, i mentioned that 30 police stations are already dementing the two strands. you might say this is a time of budget cuts across the board. and police stations, where are they getting the money to pay for these drones? anybody have a suggestion? homeland security to the rescue, taking our tax dollars and go into police stations in vain, when you like to have a drone? here, we'll give you the money to go buy it. to me it is like a drug pusher saying here little girl, would you like to try some of this and getting our hopes on the drones in the other police stations around saying hey, we want some of that as well. that is what his hat rain right

now. i'm going to just give you an example of a police station outside of hughes didn't in montgomery county that got a $300,000 grant from homeland security to buy a drone. the ceo of the company, vanguard defense industry that sold the drone said it was for things like search and rescue missions. it was for surveillance purposes, that this drug could be outfitted with what we call less lethal systems. so let me just give you an example of what less lethal systems could be. you could imagine year-round, but teasers that can electrocute suspects on the ground. firing guns, grenades launchers, teargas, even a 12 gauge shotgun. they also talk about how we can use these for surveillance purposes, recognizing these drones can be equipped with thermal imaging, facial

recognition techniques, wi-fi network cracking capabilities come assistance to intercept text messages and phone calls. but there is a sheriff that the press conference and he said no matter what we do in law enforcement, somebody is going to question it. but we're going to do the right thing and i can assure you of that. so are you feeling reassured? well, for good reason. you are not the only one. in fact, the aclu thinks everything is being put in place now for a 24 sevenths surveillance society that would profoundly change the nature of public life in the united states. and the people who are getting upset about that is not people just on the left or the right. this extends to many americans who value their privacy as well as their safety.

in fact, there's an interesting collaboration that we are now looking into. i just didn't update piece in the new york daily news with the cato institute. some of you might know interesting collaboration between code pink and the cato institute in which we wrote about the dangers of these drones and said that there should be legislation that says no government agency can use our tax dollars to give police departments or other lot worse than agency money to buy drugs. and grandpa, senator rampal introduced a piece of legislation same drones could not use to spy on americans without a warrant. so there is the possibility of broad collaboration to try to stop the 24 sevenths surveillance of americans before it starts. we are asking people as i travel around to do a very simple thing. and that is, call your police

department. so i'm going to pass around some questions for you to ask your police department. at the very simple. do you have any drones? to have any any plans to buy any drones and have you applied for a grant from the government agencies to get any drones? and then to add your own opinions about them getting drones. we are compiling this information on the website of the object tronic frontier is doing wonderful work on this issue. the other things for asking communities to do is bring resolutions before the city council to declare their the city a drone freestone. so wouldn't it be wonderful if you're in a fully declare jersey city h. rhona freestone? [applause] well, ncr occupy a movement here

as well as the peace community, the resolution has already been introduced into the city council and there will be a hearing about this on july 31st at 2:00 p.m. in the buffalo city hall. [applause] show up one and all and let's send a very strong message to the drone any fractures as well as to your government that we don't think that drones in the hands of the police will make us any safer. so a couple of other things being done on the international level i wanted to mention. one is that we are concerned about drones in the hands of the military. at least there are some rules in place about what happens when the military kills innocent people. in the case of the cia, there's no rules in place at all. the cia is not a military

agency. it is the civilian agents he by any kind of international law. it is illegal for them having drones and killing people with these drones. so were passing around a sign-up sheet that were going to take him to meet with senator dianne feinstein, who is the head of the intelligence committee and say senator, please do your job. keep drugs out of the hands of the cia. [applause] we have been make in connections with people in pakistan to tell them that the american people are not all silent and going along with this program that very many of us speaking out now. once we made those connections, they came up with a proposal and said it would be so powerful as a group of americans came to

pakistan and linked arms with us. and walked in gandhi's style to the region where the drone strikes are killing so many innocent people. when she please do that? reset of course we would be honored to do that with you. we have decided to take a delegation that week of october 3rd through 10th and we're inviting people in the public to come and join a. we have information on the website called drones watched.oregon you can check the box going around here if you want more information about that is delegation. and finally, i wonder if any of you are thinking, what about the u.n.? shouldn't a u.n. be doing something about this? they have been speaking out against the drone program for years now. but it's just recently that more action has been taken. in fact for the first time in the u.n. that in june of this

year, they had commissioned a report on the drone program and came out with a very critical report from a saying that the u.s. had to justify why it was killing people instead of capturing them and letting them have a fair trial. so obviously, many people in the u.n. are wondering the same as we are here. they also said that the u.s. must be accountable, transparent and should give reparation to the bank and said that drones families. then there is a question of the international level. what about getting regulation? there have been successful, but typical campaign that of regulated other weapons like landmines and cluster bombs. in the case of drones it's harder because it's really big business and there's a big strong lobby of an too because

in the way the genie is out of the bottle when it comes to drones. but there has to be regulation. as a group of the international community for robot arms control made up mostly of scientist to recognize how dangerous this technology is. and they came to a conference we gathered in washington d.c. they said if you think things are bad now, wait until you see what is in the works because where we are today in drone technology is where the wright brothers were when it came to the airplane and what is being developed will knock your socks off. of course it was just blow you up, but what they are really worried about is autonomous drones, that is an there's no pilot even remotely 10,000 miles away. is there preprogrammed drones that would be told where to go, what to look for and would go

out on their own to do it. they can call in other drones and what they call a swarm and just have a drone attack. and the scientists are saying, we must stop autonomous lethal drugs before they are used they must put some rules into place for the use of any kind of gleeful drones that this technology has now outpaced the regulation that we have internationally and at worst domestically to do with this technology. so these are some of the things that are nationally. i went to and for just a minute on the drone as assembled because it's only a piece of technology she, but is symbolic of a kind of attitude towards the world as well as a kind of economy but i think is keeping us on the wrong track here at home and in our relations

overseas. in terms of here at home, we are suffering from a financial crisis that is really grounded in things like trillion dollar wars that we should've never been in as well as an economy that is based on a benefit for the 1% and included in that 1% is the 1% of benefits from these wars, the 1% of corporations getting all the contracts for these wars. the 1% of the weapons manufacturers. we have people desperate for work in this country and on my travels, i have met drone engineers who are desperate for work and are making drones when they would much rather be using their extensive talents to be making things that benefit people here at home. we need jobs for engineers don't have to make killing machines to make a living.

[applause] and then in terms of the way that we are looking at the world, i have -- i give an example of the book of the study that was done 268 different entities that were called terrorist groups. and in the last 60 years, how did they dissolve? and the study, which is a very extensive study by the rand company shows that a vast majority of them, the demise came by negotiations, something very rare these days, came by better policing and only 7% came from the use of military force. now we are at our 11th year of trying to use military force against a problem that cannot be solved by military force.

[applause] just about everybody who was associated with the attack on 9/11 seems to have been killed according to our own government, so now what we are doing is creating more enemies faster than we can kill them. we are only perpetuating a war machine. our government has said we there have been some the ground here and we have an expensive war in which the american soldiers can get killed or we have drones. i think it is time to say to the american government, we want another option and that is polar troops out of afghanistan and drowned the killer drone. >> under the bush administration thursday strong, vibrant, antiwar movement. so strong and vibrant that on favorite to team from the 2003 before the invasion of iraq we

organized the largest mobilization of people in human history about any issue. [applause] for eight years, people came out into the streets in this country to say no to war by the hundreds of thousands. and then president obama cadillac did. many people say okay, he's going to end the war. let's give them a chance. those given a honeymoon. other people then got caught up in a financial crisis at hand to focus on issues at home for whatever reason the antiwar movement fizzled out. but there is another reason and that is part of politics because many people who are sensitive to the killing of innocents overseas i find themselves in the democratic party and might find themselves supporters of president obama. and at this point, might find themselves anxious to be reelected. and so they don't speak out about a killing spree that

president carter said in a "new york times" op-ed recently, would have never been allowed in any other illustration. so we are allowing this administration to get away with some thing that is murder. and we have to build a movement that is not attached to a political party. we have to build a move ends attached to values, morals that says whatever government is empowered that we we want to really do the rest of the world, not through drones, not through bombs, not troops, not through tanks and killing, but through kindness, through compassion, through love and her respect to international law and our own constitution. [cheers and applause]

okay, let's open it up to discussion, suggestions, whatever you like. >> it seems to be number one. transparency for the drone is not tv one. secondly, since 1980 units had we been involved in a structural drift towards fascism in this country. ..

supposedly chasing terrorists may also be understood as a subjective theory of borders. that is an imperial theory. >> i don't think this is a fascist country. we should recognize that we still have tremendous ability in this country to speak out and we have to use that ability. we have to recognize that we can mobilize in the streets, we can use civil disobedience, we can do sit ins and have done them in congressional offices. we do think the occupy movement gives us a lot of energy and

faint good as for the occupy movement giving up younger people. [applause] >> too many people in the peace movement from the vietnam generation including myself and it is so important we get this energized by the young regeneration and that is happening now and i try to put this in the context of a larger war economy. the occupy movement is focusing on the problem of a country that is no longer really of, for and by the people but the corporations. when you have so much corporate control and i won't say a fascist state. we have the ability and the need to mobilize not just about foreign policy issues and how we are going to move our society

from the present one to one that is based on an economy that is good for the 99% and the good of all of us and economy that takes care of one of the bigger problems we have which is below will warming. as we are sweating ourselves during this summer if people don't finally recognize we are destroying the planet and have to take money out of the military and put it into a green energy, come on. [applause] >> i am an organizer. one thing i'm talking about is obama. the difference between obama and mitt romney in 2012. the lot of progressives i work with on the left--not way left. i would go so far as to say

occupied. very anti obama. there was that piece about how -- whatever. my question to you is this 2012 election coming up if mitt romney gets elected my work as an organizer will be more difficult. i am wondering and i can explain that if you like. i am wondering where you stand on the 2012 election. >> i don't feel it is my job to go around and encourage people to vote one way or the other. i think everybody has to vote their conscience and vote about the issues most near and dear to you. i could not vote for obama given what i know and i spent a year talking to victim families and i can't do it. i will vote for the green party candidate. but i understand people have all kinds of issues that are important to them and you have to make a list of those issues and who would be the best

possible candidate based on those issues. we are not given enough choices. we have a two party system that is so limiting to us and so hard for parties to get any traction. i look with envy at so many other countries that have a representative democracy where if you get 5% of the vote you get 5% of representation and you can shift the whole tenor of the debate when you have stronger third parties that are part of it. what is important, what is most important to me, and independent of political parties. every two years and four years in which we vote for the lesser

of two evils and independence work we are doing. we will start recognizing, and i personally will not do it. >> the movement we are talking about does exist right now and regardless obama is going to win, probably obama. it is our job not to allow him to continue to do this and remain a viable politician. if you support obama because of other issues make sure it is an issue that is important to you to continue to act with impunity and corporations act with impunity and no matter who the president is there are progressive movements to hold presidents accountable for what we do and we have gotten lazy and it is our job to get off our asses and make sure he cannot do this and the democrats will be

reelected. shamelessly plug july 31st. please speak out. >> you could very well say the real culprit in this is the american people because no matter who is in office we should have this strong movements that forces our government to have a foreign policy that reflects our own values and instead what we have is a republican race in which ron paul was the only one speaking out about foreign policy issues and they were all pulling obama to the right. we have a policy race in which mitt romney is pulling a more militarized physician and we have the military-industrial complex. what does obama have in the

other direction? a demobilized peace movement. we have to look at ourselves and how to many monday -- anybody get away with we have now. >> i want to ask about domestic drones. they are very limited. and equipping these drones if it is not a police department. is there any type of follow-up, and recreational and other activities. >> all we know or i know is the faa has given very specific

uses. we also know those specific uses have been violated. they were permitted to use as a border, to a police department, anybody who installed six cattle. the drone would be used to find a cattle rustler. that seems to be the permit they were getting, it is an important question. other institutions meeting with the faa and asking how these regulations are but the and a has only to do with our safety. hasn't -- doesn't have to do with our privacy so you are in another area. we know how awful the regulations are in terms of

individuals buying firearms and we see the results of that in the violence in our communities. i do not know what kind of regulations there will be for the less than lethal uses of these references. that is scary. >> from the research that i have done i can't find anything. i was curious to see if there is something. >> it is scary and we have to meet with our police department and talk about this. you should go to the national association of police. we should be asking at different levels of the government because you are right. we do not know. very disturbing. [applause] >> speaking of police and drones the drones are continuation of the immigration and of police in the country. $3 billion in the last ten years have been distributed to local

law enforcement to buy basically every law enforcement unit in the department in this country has a military arm squad that is not platooned and swat teams as well as armored vehicles and under the home security homeland security in the formation of fusion centers and across the intelligence and it is called the terrorism taskforce which consists of all the police department in the area. the drone issue is more about the police which goes back to the idea of the creeping fascism we are seeing. >> they are taking advantage of the occupy movement to act as if this is a very dangerous movement and justifying the -- if danger is successful in

switching the corporate rule to will buy the people but in terms of being a violent movement certainly being used to justify further taking away of civil liberties and militarization. >> the last comment goes where it is going. the work that lies ahead because with presidential elections or whenever it is the unorganized masses we need to get engaged because they become the layer between those who consider themselves progressive that are blocking the movement and i would argue that it is not a dangerous movement. is a necessary movements. [applause] >> i just wanted to at in terms of due process, when we put that in the context of the national

defense authorization act which specifically took away our due process and said that it is legal, made it legal to hold people without any charges and put us back to pre magna carta level of civil liberties is shocking and what i like to get back, what can we do ourselves and you did give us a number of things. if you would summarize them what you would advise us to do to make some forward motion in this area? >> some other people have been advising -- i will tell you what other people have been advising. people like charles crowderhammer you say rifles in the air, america. the first american to shoot down

a drone hovering will be a folk hero. there are others who said we should hack down these drones like the iranians hacked down the drones. i don't use those as my tactic. i say tactics like being in the peace movement at this point is prevention because we can do this right now. we can form a relationship with our police department. we can go to our congress people and have discussions about this. we can get these pass through city council. throughout the united states there should be city after city and not just berkeleys and madison, wisconsins but real towns. they shoulde conservative american. that is something we have to appeal to people of different political stripes and make this a non-partisan issue and we have to reach out to people we often

do not speak to. i say that in all seriousness. sometimes those who are seen on the other side won't talk to us like recently happened in philadelphia when we tried to join a tea party gathering that was happening and we thought they wanted to meet with the occupiers and they wouldn't let us in. we reached out and we did want to talk to them but we need to reach out in this area because we are going to find a loss of support. it even means in your own family. i have a lot of conservative people in my family and this is one area where we have found common ground. oftentimes in congress you can't get a bill going because it is introduced by progressive democrats. dennis kucinich cannot gets much traction on a bill but these kind of bills we can get

conservative republicans as well as blue dog democrats and progressive and maybe even make some head way. there's a good article by associated press that says complaints about the drones have just been on the fringe and the fringe is us. it is much more mainstream and quoted a republican congressman from louisiana who is that i go to wal-mart and people ask about these drones. this is a broad issue. we can get these no drone resolutions passed in many different kinds of urban and rural cities and we can try to stop the drones but i am glad other people have put it in the context of the military is asian of the police force. i was in berkeley, california two weeks ago giving a talk and people said i can't come to your

talk and they said we will flood the city council because the city of berkeley is talking about buying a tank. it is much more of a larger issue and let's keep it in that context. military-industrial complex. >> is there any chance of having some congressperson or some religious group that comes out and says the killing aspect is wrong and has to be discussed publicly? >> dennis kucinich introduced a bill that didn't even say the killing is wrong and has to stop but we want some accountability and transparency and explain what they are doing and they could only get 25 other people to hang on to that which is astounding to me. not even the entire progressive

caucus signed on to that. it is an election year and they want to show their support to the administration. one other piece of it -- >> what about -- that is a really good question. it is something that puzzles me to no end. i have searched far and wide for people in the religious community and i have a chapter on ethics and morality of drones and you would think there would be remiss written about this. we have been doing this program for tweet -- for over eight years. it was hard to find religious leaders speaking out against this. we have got to change that and change that quickly. we have to encourage our pastors

and priests and the moms and rabbis and all people who have a community or faith based community to speak out. there is a big exception to zach and that is the catholic workers. the catholic worker community who are some of the most soulful, artful, the best our country ever has to offer in terms of caring for the 4 leaders will caring for the planet and trying to stop the killing have been putting their bodies on the line and going to jail in their protests around this. so have my sisters who have been doing this for several years in front of air force bases in front of the headquarters of drone manufacturers.

veterans for peace, more recent vests that have been joining in these protests. i thank everybody who has done something and make sure mo -- more of us come with you and make these protests more frequent and visible and it would be good for somebody in this community involved in these protests to explain what you have been doing. >> i wanted to get the microphone at this point to say here in buffalo we have the interface network which is the faith based group, interface group that has been a supporter of the upstate coalition to ground drone that end war which is where the protests in hancock are coming from and one of the hancock 38, we might have a couple. jamie over here has been part of

this and anybody -- we have numerous people. and a veteran for peace has been part of the hancock peace walker's and if anyone has been to buffalo and gone to hancock field stands up. i know there are quite a number. charlie, valerie, thank you all. we are working hard and hoping to not get people thinking this is a solution to the niagara falls arab based problems because it is the big problem. it is a lose/lose and we are looking for a win/win. >> those who don't know -- >> hancock fields excuse me, hancock field outside syracuse is one of the three largest drone operations where they are

doing drone maintenance and some training including working with -- and operating drones in afnd syracuse peace council sponsoring by weekly protests out there. has been for years and upstate coalition ground the drone that end war has been one of the arms and that is governmental administration and disorderly conduct and the officer who booked me did not write disorderly conduct. so shocked that he was suggesting that. the only way we could have been more orderly was if we had done the dining room in alphabetical order. the second time for the hancock peace walker when i was arrested again as the police we have done which was highly irregular and

people first arrested sixty to 70 people for walking without a permit and for ten of them for assembling without a permit in front of the base. >> without permits? >> assembly without permits and walking or [talking over each other] >> right. [inaudible] >> northern city doing the same thing. >> with a pre-emptive arrest and it seems very clear because there are meetings between the base back to what you mentioned that you have seen that because of these meetings with the bass people meeting with the sheriff's department that they are finding ways to prevent our petitioning, the government for redress of grievances and actually we are working under a number of principles trying to staff the illegal acts of our government.

ramsey clark in the courtroom with hancock 38 testifying as international law expert to the illegality of the drones. [applause] >> at the forefront of all of this. >> a couple of you talked about seeing me when i spoke out when the counterterrorism chief john brennan was speaking in washington d.c. for the first time addressing the drone programs and you were saying it laughing because i was getting dragged out and still speaking and keeping myself from being pulled out the door before i finished talking but it is not an easy thing to do. it is not easy to get arrested or speak out before the counterterrorism chief of the united states and these are hard things to do. in the case of john brennan he has said in 2011 we have not

killed one civilian with our drones. he also called the drones ethical, just, surgically precise and why is. it is sad this is coming from somebody so high at in the administration so i want to end on a nose of how proud i am to be with people here who have put their lives on the line and crossed over the base and been willing to go to jail and taken the road of martin luther king and stand up for all human life and also want to recognize the work that we have ahead of us not just in convincing our government what to do but convincing other americans because other americans might be quicker to agree with us that they don't want their privacy and safety violated at home they

are still living under this cloak of fear that allows them to think it is okay to be killing people overseas that are named militant by our government and what a militant could be somebody who wants the occupiers to leave their country and who allows the american people allowing us to kill a lot of innocent people including american teenage boy without speaking out about it and one of the saddest polls i ever read was a recent one that said eight of ten americans said it was ok to use drones' against terror suspects and people who define themselves as liberal democrats and of those 79% said it was okay to kill an american overseas who was a terror suspect. we have a lot of work to do. there is one positive thing.

there was a similar poll that was taken in 22 countries and that poll shows the vast majority of people around the world think that these drones strikes are atrocious. think that this is a barbaric way of addressing these kinds of international conflicts and are really anxious to see the united states stop this program and to see the american people join the world community in denouncing these killer drones. at least we can feel we are part of a global community and that should give us inspiration. >> i want to start with a nose of gratitude. thank you for everything you have done. the pantheon of heroes of amy goodman and other people do stand up for justice and compassion and do so in a very visible way. your tactics, i think your assessment that this is a

sleeping peaceful thing is different in ways that is difficult to see right now. occupy is nascent. it has not really begun. there are a lot of things happening right now sort of like arguing a sprout isn't an oak tree because it is six inches tall and not enough shade. something is happening. i would like to thank all the people i see from occupy and i see all these movements collectively standing for something. i have a specific political question. what in your opinion have you discovered is the administration's political goal or military goal of killing people in a country in pakistan and not much infrastructure. what are they hoping to do by killing people? what specific military goal is

being achieved? >> the fact that the drone program is happening in pakistan is a reflection of the surge in afghanistan has been unsuccessful and the obama administration sent a 30,000 more troops into afghanistan thinking they can win this war with more troops they realize that wasn't happening and pakistan is where some of the people fighting us, our troops in afghanistan are going over. the troops in afghanistan would not be spilling into pakistan trying to get back into afghanistan to kill our troops. so much of this is political. so much is about showing military strength when it comes to terrorism. i would love to be the little drone fly on the wall in some of

these meetings where they are saying we must do everything we can to make sure there are no other terrorist attacks between now and the november election. if it means we are going to launch more of these hellfire missiles and kill more innocent people in the process because i don't think the president wants to kill innocent people then i think they are saying so be it. this is something we have to do to make sure there isn't an attack against us and especially during an election year. it comes with this idea that there isn't a military solution. lot of people in this administration camee last administration. there is not a transformation from the budget ministration to the obama to the military. there has been rearranging of

the title. the same mind, same people and reflection and a military solution in afghanistan with. on the ground. this is the administration's way of dealing with the war of a policy that you whack them in afghanistan, they go to yemen and having to use drones in africa. isn't somebody going to stop at some point and this doesn't make sense. and as long as americans continue to allow it to happen it will keep happening. >> to refuse illegal orders. talk about the legalities that

broken for the soldier and personally i am concerned about the education process and people willing to kill innocent people. they don't seem to have the mentality to say no. >> people conscientious about the war in iraq and afghanistan, and throwing the middle, if we don't have a draft. if we had a draft there would be a huge movement and would have ended already, one% of the population sees the direct effect of the war. we were all affected by the financial situation. and they have a peace movement.

i don't know -- it will take a lot more work and a lot more effort and wars don't end easily and we need our allies on the inside. we need people in the military who are speaking out and want to speak out or ready to speak out. we need people when they leave the military and bring them in because their voices are often seen as legitimate voices in this discussion. there are people from the obama administration, have spoken out against these jerome programs and we should get them on the speaking circuit. i find it disgusting that george bush to dick cheney and condoleezza rice and rumsfeld and the latest one being colin

powell made some much money for writing their memoirs. i am scraping together $5 to do a speaking tour. they are getting hundreds of thousands of dollars for one tot and millions of dollars for their book and they are propagating the lies they propagated when they were in office and nobody has held accountable. we have been telling people so and so is speaking at this place. go there and take some handcuffs and try to arrest them in the name of the citizen. [applause] >> when you have no accountability for the sins of a past administration you have no accountability for the sins of this administration. >> here is what comes to mind. sometimes we talk about what they are doing meaning the government, the military. it keeps coming back to what we

are doing. i use this expression about sports season. you are like a coach. we would be high and might as well search out. much of what you are doing is talking to the team. i end by saying everything he says goes back to that simple bumper sticker. and if the people we'd, the leaders will follow. it is about going back to the people. we need infusion of deeper insight and deeper inclusion to really do the work we need to

do. >> as i travel, so inspired by this community. this community has shown me the issues the local economy and what you want to see whether the global picture, with the drone killing and the local and global and the occupy movement and the peace movement and you are a model around the country so thank you for bringing it back to that, the ones we are waiting for. you are the ones i have been waiting for. >> we would like to hear from you. tweet us your feedback at twitter.com/booktv.

>> my history of financial institutions is the history of learning about these things. in 1811 the state of new york created a new security law which did two things. did allow anybody to set up a corporation with minimal restrictions. special permission and limited liability. the company was later accused of wrongdoing, the lawsuits go after your assets. people were afraid to invest in companies they didn't really know. it was a family business. the law change everything and

was copied over the world. a sense of pleasure investing. love the excitement of finding out whether your number came up by creating limited liability. it became fun the same way a lot -- people have to enjoy life. they have to see something they can get out of bed in the morning, and we design things that give you that feeling. the securities law has been the source of a lot of innovation. it looks like they're playing a game. looks a little selfish. other people -- karl marx said we should shut it down. after years of experience, they

say we have to let people indulge in these feelings. let me move -- go further by 16 minutes. the wanted to talk about the future and some of the ideas i talked-about, and move a little bit more and more into the wild future. what happens tomorrow is president obama has said he will sign the job thaact. that was misleading. it is jump-start our business start ups. it is controversial. i like it. notably as an experiment it may or may not work well. let me tell you what is the most

interesting part of the jobs act. the jobs act was created in response to requests from internet website providers who wanted to create cloud funding website for entrepreneurs. if you are trying to start a business you can put it on their web site and i am looking for money and thousands or millions of investors all over the world can send money and you can start a business. this is a wild idea. but it is endorsed by a lot of internet people. i think it is just about as wild as wikipedia sounded at the beginning. if i came to you and before wikipedia started and said i am going to open an online encyclopedia and let anybody in the world add to it my first reaction would have been that is a dumb idea.

it is not going to be a good encyclopedia. we learn something about how people can work together through wikipedia. this is a good experiment. what congress has done is they are worried a lot of sheep out there and someone is going to steal money from someone else this way. one thing they have done in the legislation is you have to document your income to the web site and for people with incomes up to $40,000 you can't invest more than 2% of your income which is $800. it is small for each individual. that protects people but it can't go that bad and the maximum is $10,000 you can put in if you have higher income. it is designed to protect people. even if people could only invest $800 if you get enough of them you get real capital. >> you can watch this and other

programs online at booktv.org. >> here are the best-selling nonfiction books according to the new york times. the list reflects sales for the week of september 9th. first is the glass cassel. contributor to msn b.c..com recounts her nomadic and dysfunctional childhood. in the second spot laura hildebrand details the story of an olympic runner's time in world war ii with unbroken. third is wild. her 1100 mile hike along the pacific coast and explains how her travels changed her life and mental health. next, dinesh d'souza talk about the president's second term is "obama's america: unmaking the american dream" and then bill o'reilly's killing lincoln. the shocking assassination the change america forever. edward klein argues president obama is unfit for the united

states presidency in the amateur at number 6. at number 7 is the immortal life of henry adams whacks. the story of a woman whose cells were unknowingly taken by scientists leading to research on polio and cancer. next the biography of former penn state football coach joe paterno titled paterno. followed by a double cross. the true story of the d day spies by dan mcintyre which chronicles the attack enormity from the point of view of double agents. at number 10 is a stolen life by j.c. do guard which chronicles the life of a woman kidnapped at age 11 and held captive for 18 years by convicted rapist and his wife. you can find more on these bestsellers by going to